The Fun of the Uninformed…
And Sadly, They Know How To Type Letters to Me…
I have no problem at all with questions on most topics, mostly writing and publishing. And I have no real issues about what people think of me. I’ve been in this business for over fifty years. Seen some amazingly stupid things and did a few of them myself along the way.
But today I got a letter from someone who seemed to have an issue with me (again which is fine) but his issue was how can I make a living with my fiction when clearly my Amazon sales numbers are so low and my author ranking is so low. He was actually angry at me.
I have made zero bones about the fact that I think Amazon is screwed up, and on the scale of things, it might be eighth or ninth largest income stream. Down from 7th for a time. It is an okay bookstore, but honestly we pay it little attention.
The sales around the world in its many regions and countries are nice to get, but again also minor.
But to so many early stage writers who have not yet learned how to think outside the myth, Amazon is the only thing. (Really sad if you are putting your work into the AI cesspool called Select.)
And then this uninformed person got even madder at me for claiming in my bio I have sold over 35 million copies of my books. (Actually I am fairly certain that number is very low, but I am too lazy to total up a new one.)
This guy didn’t seem to understand I had been writing and selling for over 50 years and sold my first novel 40 years ago next year. (1987) So first let me deal with his inability to imagine a long-term writing career and how things build up over time.
Kris and I had one Star Trek book we wrote (out of the 35 I wrote with and without her) that sold over two million paperbacks and put us on the New York Times extended list. And we wrote the 10th Kingdom that was the NBC miniseries and that sold millions. And those are two major sellers we can claim as examples that had our names on them. (I wrote under a ton of pen names in those years.)
Thirty-five million is low, of that I have no doubt.
So let me get out of the old traditional days and move to today with some numbers and why we pay little attention to Amazon.
Earlier this month I did a small Kickstarter for my collections that I am using to round up 500 or so of my short stories. (Surveys just sent out.) I put in 15 collections (150 stories) as both regular awards, stretch goals, and extras in a Featured award.
So here is the math on this small Kickstarter for short story collections only.
We got to $5,748 which I was very happy with from 92 backers.
We will get $5,200 after Kickstarter fees sometime next week.
The cost to produce the paper and hardbacks will be $650 leaving $4,550 in income for the electronic books.
All backers will get 10 collections and another 50 or so will get 15 collections, so just for easy math, let me say that all 92 backers will get 15 collections because some other misc books sold.
So in the 9 days of this campaign, I sold 1,380 books. And after I send out those books to the backers, the collections will be up for preorder on all sites and our Shopify stores. And then for sale wide for years to come.
So I made in 9 days for 1,380 collections sold, $3.30 per book.
In 9 days… And that was for a small campaign with just science fiction collections.
Last year (in 2025) we did over $100,000 in profits (not gross) from Kickstarters and the year before over that amount by a ways. And that was a lot of books sold. A lot.
And Kickstarter is not our top or even second cash stream. As I have said many times, Kris and I make most of our money each year on licenses.
Of course, the uninformed angry guy challenging me because of my Amazon rankings wouldn’t know a copyright, a trademark, or a licensed right if it bit him.
But those of you who backed the campaign we did in February got four writing books tonight. Grab the ADVANCED MAGIC BAKERY 2026 and read it first. It might open an eye or maybe two about copyright and licenses.
Problem with writing me uninformed angry letters is that I never answer them, but I do have this blog that four or five thousand people see.
Such fun.
12 Comments
Diane Wordsworth
I love THE MAGIC BAKERY. It completely changed my writing life and my attitude to publishing, and I’m dying to read the updated version, which I just collected – thank you! I tell everyone I know about it. But hey, some folk are just stuck in their ways, or too scared (or too cocky) to try anything different, and either stay with traditional publishing or keep everything exclusive to Select. Their issue, not mine.
dwsmith
Diane, the new edition has just been updated, but got a feeling you will see different things going through it this time. I am really proud of that book and the Writing into the Dark book.
Thanks for the kind words.
Michael W Lucas
Ah, Amazon mania. In 2025 Amazon was my #3 income source and falling, but folks won’t believe that (https://mwl.io/archives/24519).
Might change next year. Who knows? Not gonna turn off the Bezosbeast, but not gonna coddle it either.
One of my loudly shouted secrets to success is “learn from people who are doing the thing you want to do, in the way you want to do them.” You want to make a living writing? Find folks who are making a living writing and steal their methods. We’re open about them. All you gotta do is listen.
One day I’m gonna break down and write the “this is how I make a living” book. But it has to be during a time when I can cope with the hate mail, sigh.
dwsmith
Yup, because people will not believe you, even though you are doing it. For years and years.
James Palmer
Great post, Dean. Amazon is not a good indicator of how well a book is doing. The rankings can be misleading. If a book is #1 in a category with only ten books in it, that’s not as good as being at #50 in a category with 100 books in it. Plus, if you’re wide, Amazon doesn’t matter all that much on its own. Kickstarter is a better indicator. I know authors who regularly do $10,000 per campaign. Try getting a $10k advance from a publisher these days, especially for only one book.
Anyway, good post as always. I’m sure your letter writer will read it.
dwsmith
Agree James, but I doubt the letter writer will read it. To do that would take an ability and desire to learn and he is too angry at everyone else to learn anything for himself. Nature of that type of person.
Terry T.
As an aspiring writer, I’m always curious to hear about how income streams actually work, especially for authors publishing independently. From where I’m standing at the start of things, I figure I’m looking at years (if not a decade or two) of losing money on self-publishing before reaching discoverability—basically it’ll be a rather expensive hobby for a while—so it’s encouraging to think that some of that money may actually come back at some point. I just got my writing books, and I’m excited to read through them!
If you don’t mind my asking, around when was it that license profits started overtaking book sales profits for you? Also, are most of the lucrative licenses from things you never published traditionally—since with indie you have your entire pie to work with—or have rights you got back from traditionally published works and resold elsewhere also done well?
dwsmith
Terry, not true about losing money for a decade. Unless you are spending a fortune on having someone else do your covers and layout, then yes, but if you are doing everything yourself, a few book sales cover costs and you will be in profit quickly.
So to lose money for decades, you need to be doing something very wrong or writing one book per year.
Your question about licensing is a good one and I have gotten a few letters with that almost exact same question, so Saturday night I will answer it in a blog.
Write me off line directly if you do not understand my push-back on you losing money. Actually even with small sales and way short of discoverability magic numbers, indie writers can make money, not lose money. Might only be coffee money, as it is called, but it is not losing money.
Dawn Blair
I had to go look because I’ve been watching Amazon fall in my income stream ranks since I first heard you mention this. Arguments could be made on my classifications of income streams, but let’s just say that Amazon is not my #1, #2, or even #3 for writing income. It just shows that there are more opportunities out there than Amazon in ways that writers can and should earn money.
Quite honestly, I don’t want Amazon to be my top income stream. The profit margin isn’t good compared to other ways I can position my books. I can feel Amazon groupies whining now. Let’s shut them up. Let’s see, 70% royalties less $0.15/MB distribution fee on an ebook or 95% (which is 100% of the sale less 2-3% + $0.30 for typical credit card fees) royalties from the sale of that ebook on my website. Yes, I will list on both for the benefit of my readers, and I will be happy with the 65%-ish Amazon royalties for readers choosing to purchase there, but guess where I will be trying to drive traffic myself? It’s a good business decision. This is a factor the letter writer doesn’t understand.
He’s probably too young to remember, but I do recall seeing a lot of the Star Trek books with your name on them in the stores. I remember seeing Kris’ books. I knew both of you as Writer Names!!! before I got to know you, the support you both provide to writers, and the community you have built.
Just don’t show him the scary math on productivity. His mind’s already blown.
dwsmith
Thanks, Dawn. And yeah, smarter writers are finding more and more that Amazon is going down the line in amounts as other ways of sales pick up. And wait until licensing sneaks in for you, that will jump everything up. (grin)
Aniket
Stages of fiction writers was one of my fevorite book and lectures, and having the new edition is fantastic. Already 60% through it and its already eye opening. Thanks for the books, Dean. Hope you re-do the lectures or a workshop on the same.
dwsmith
Thanks, Aniket. Appreciate the kind comments.